since the lemons race love the ghetto fabbed up turbo kit, why dont we just fab up a ghetto turbo for the 4age and stick it out of the engine lid, i have a t25 turbo in good condition, boost controller, and a 1g dsm bov, we'll just do a fake receipt and call it a day. dont think about going "na" or say "we need to learn how the car handles first" TURBO= torque and hp hell lets even use sc piston and boost the crap out of it running a FMU and mikes tacoma fuel pump!
on a light ass car with about 180-200hp it'll be like running a stock supratt
I'm not much of a Turbo guy but I do like the idea of a lot more power. Chee is right about the LeMons take on fabbed chargers, from here (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/12/arse-freeze-a-palooza-day-one-over-fed-up-e30-battles-cbr1000-engined-geo-for-lead/) found right below the VW Beetle with its engine out:
Quote from: LeMonsWe love ghettocharged LeMons racers, of course, but such a setup can have a deleterious effect on reliability.
10.3:1 compression with 5-8 psi boost
9:1 compression with 12-15 psi boost
8:1 compression with 15+ psi boost
What do you think Bill?
I know it's just another wrench I mean idea thrown into the thick of things.... We could build the NA engine for starters while we learn the ropes or we could just go big right away.
As long as the setup is reliable it shouldn't be a problem.
That is the key. In the
future we could run the MegaSquirt and get it dynotuned, but there is no way we could do any of that before March. Hell we don't even have a car that runs yet LOL.
We could have the turbo mounted up high and nasty like this:
Probably what we need to do is after I graduate in 2 weeks, we should all meet up at Bill's house or at a Dennys, whatever, and discuss and decided what is best for the interest of the "team".
In fact, I think we should schedule a meeting regardless and I am going to start a thread for this later tonight. :thumbs:
Mike
"we could just go big right away"
go big or go home
..... after having some time to think about it, I am not so sure about this...
It will HAVE to be SUPER UBER ghetto or else I say No. I got home and I've been reading a lot of stuff on the official LeMons forum.... I think it may be best to continue with the "Most from the Least" approach. Maybe we can make 135 HP and be under 2000 lbs. I KNOW we are GOOD drivers with one SUPER GREAT driver, and that will go a long way.
Some quotes to think about from the LeMons forum...
This is from Judge Phil (yes, an actual LeMons Judge!)
QuoteTo get the Curse with a perceived cheaty car requires that the car dominate during Saturday (i.e., sit in the top 5 of the standings and be way faster than everything else). We've given big penalty laps to protect such cars in the past (e.g., the SR20DET-powered Sentra in Texas), but the reality is that a Neon or RX-7 team stacked with great drivers is always going to blow away a super-cheaty car with average drivers.
A good theme will probably protect just about any car, however high its Perceived Cheatism Factor (PCF) may be, so the Plyborghini approach is indeed a good one.
Here is Judge Phil's list of things he likes to see. Yes the home-fab'd Turbo is listed in his #1 enjoyment :yesnod:, but the last thing he wants to see if a really fast car, so....... :headscratch:
QuoteWe definitely have an order of preference for cars we like to see. This varies according to which LeMons HQ perpetrator you ask; for me it goes like:
1. Ridiculous engineering monstrosities (crazy engine swaps, dual engines, quad-ghettocharging, motorcycle power, etc)
2. Awesomely executed rolling sculptures that still get around the track pretty well (Wienermobile, Eyesore CRX & Miata, Prickstine, Bavarian Ranchero, etc)
3. Cars that never, ever belonged on a race track (Cadillac Eldorado, Renault Le Car, Lexus LS400, Plymouth Voyager, '62 Fleetwood, etc)
4. Putatively sporty cars that can be relied on to blow up early and often (any turbocharged Chrysler/Mitsubishi product, Fiats, MGs, etc)
(insert many more categories here)
100. Fast, late-model cars that let the team get lots of high-speed seat time.
Our Dual-Throttle body idea falls into his #1 enjoyment to see :yesnod: Toilet Seat spoilers, shitty team theme; Honestly we already have a LOT of great things going in our favor at the moment.
Remember that at the end of the first day of racing, every team votes for a car to receive the "People's Curse". Here is someone's perspective on it:
QuoteIf an obviously cheaty car is:
nowhere near the top 10
OR
penalized out of contention
OR
not being driven in a prickish manner
It won't get my curse vote. Don't care what it is.
So if we had some 200 hp 1900 lb MR2 that was unstoppable, we could lay low on the first day and be in the top 30 or so, and then go all out on Sunday. But this strategy is far from fail proof.
Some humor on cheating...
QuoteAt least for the first couple races; in LeMons, you're guilty until your incompetence as a team prove you innocent.
So for sure doing more with less will go further in this competition I think. I wonder how a 135 HP 2000 lb MR2 will compare to a 180 HP BMW E30 ? It is probably going to come down to something like this. Maybe we could build a 150 HP normally aspirated car with dyno tune and a lot of hidden parts but we won't be able to do any of that by March, not by a long shot.
That's all I've got so far. There is so much info to read and learn from on the LeMons forum, especially in the
LeMons Newcomers (http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewforum.php?id=2) forum.
Ok, back to studying!! :wall:
let's make it as ghetto as possible, I have the parts let's do it. as for passing up everyone let's just sand bag everyone. we can do a dual stage manual boost controller by setting one boost on 5 psi and the other on 18 psi on a switch or button
I like Chee's idea of a scramble boost! But I think the whole thing of getting familiar is good too. I don't like the idea of the people's curse falling on our heads because we did tooooo good at a previous race. Getting the car to 2000 lbs seems like a very doable mod! A 4AGE is stock, in USDM models, at a whopping 115 hp, 100 lbs torque. It's been proven that the biggest robber of power is the exhaust system mandated here. Intake mods usually give a good 5 to 10 hp, and the exhaust increased to 2 1/4" with the cat removed is good for another 10 to 15 hp if done right and a good flowing muffler is used. Ours will not have a cat or the 90 + 180 + 90 degree bends that are in a stock exhaust. Header, muffler and out the back! straight shot! With the exhaust described here and the intake done like I had in my 2, hp should be around 130 with a bone stock engine. Throw in a little tighter tuning, 10.3 pistons, thinner head gasket to bring comp to 10.5 or so, and the 294 cams. I'd say 140 hp with 120 lbs torque is a possibility! If we get to use a MAP set up, 140 to 150 is a decent guesstimate. Mild portwork would help a tad too. So many ways to go! But I believe 140 hp and 110-115 lbs torque are what we can expect out of the engine we hope to get done with the parts in my garage.
As for the turbo engine. Let's get a race or two under our belts and go from there. How about a mild turbo 7AGE? Most of the 'stock' 7AGE builds I've heard about are pushing close to 150 hp and 145 lbs torque! Just got to keep the rpm level down. The rods look weak, but I think they could handle quite a bit. Let's see how things go. But turbo? Tune for low to mid range or mid to high range? Chee's T25 would be great for the mid to high end! I have a T18 that would give a hella bottom end! I was getting aroud 170 in my Tredia with that SOHC 1.8 Mitsu anchor. That little engine kicked in about 2300 rpm like it was pissed! But it died off around 5500 rpm. The T18 is still sitting on that engine in my garage.
How about building an adapter to put a turbo on the end of the stock axhaust manifold? I know it won't be the 'ghetto' look that catches the judges attention, but it would be a better set-up than piping the thing in the stratosphere. The stocker has a decent scavenge, and holds velocities high. The cast iron manifold would hold the heat better than tubing. The turbo's placcement would facilitate the building of a good exhaust system. Pressure pipe routing would be shorter. I'm sure we could bullshit our way into an accaord with the BS judges. Hey, an engine at Pick a part on half day is around 60 bucks! At least for the receipt! A turbo from just about anything is only like 50 bucks. We can buy an intercooler kit on ebay for under 200 bucks! If time permits, we can make the piping on the pressure side with composites for not too much. I have that supra intercooler. The electronics????? We'll see what happens there.
We could just run a stock MR2 intercooler as long as we get plenty of air through it. It would be very inexpensive
For future races. Let's still concentrate on the first, and finish it!
:psss:Going turbo would be an ideal stage for the hidden microsuirt! :idea:
:hammerhead: Damnit Chee, you got me looking at the whole turbo thing! How much you sell that t25 for anyway? Electronics suggestions please!
Here is a pic of the down pipe off a stock 4AGE. We can trim the 'Y' and shape it to fit an adapter for a turbo. It should tuck a turbocharger neatly between the firewall and the block with decent access for intake and exhaust piping.
Check out the cover of the latest Project Car magazine. The turbo Honda is a good arguement for turboing the car! A picture is worth a thousand words! The flame out the tube in the hood is from the wastegate. Striking visual effects!
I am not cool enough to get that magazine