Author Topic: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events  (Read 9117 times)

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Offline BigMike

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Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« on: January 03, 2013, 09:02:29 AM »
Bill shared this with me and I am highly interested!

https://www.redlinetimeattack.com

I haven't read all the info yet, but it looks to be a weekend event, about $150 each day (Sat and/or Sun), and you simply show up with your car and do some hot laps on different tracks throughout California.


This sounds pretty good to me since 1) I already have a car that runs and 2) I've always wanted to get my car to a track :hyper:

Here is some quick info

Categories:
  • Unlimited AWD
  • Unlimited RWD (FR,MR,RR)
  • Unlimited FF
  • Limited AWD
  • Limited RWD (FR,MR,RR)
  • Limited FF
  • Street AWD
  • Street RWD (FR,MR,RR)
  • Street FF

Tracks and Schedule:
  • Round 1: REGISTRATION OPEN February 16/17 - Buttonwillow Raceway (near Bakersfield, CA)
  • Round 2: March 16/17 - Willow Springs International Raceway (near Lancaster, CA)
  • Round 3: May 4/5 - Chuckwalla Valley Raceway (near Desert Center, CA)
  • Round 4: June 15/16 - Willow Springs International Raceway
  • Round 5: July  20/21-  ButtonWillow Raceway #2
  • Round 6: September 14/15 - Auto Club Speedway Sports Car Roval Course (near Fontana, CA)
  • Round 7: October 12/13 - Willow Springs International Raceway #2
  • Round 8: November 23/24 - Auto Club Speedway Sports Car Roval Course #2

Registration Prices:
  • Unlimited Class $300 per entry
  • Limited Class $300 per entry
  • Street Class $150 per entry

I know Bill would like to join me, Mike, how about you and your new MR2? First event is Feb 16-17 :driving:
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Offline Sirdeuce

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 07:16:21 PM »
I heard about this and got all kinds of excited! I could run my FX16, after I get the suspension done. I thought Big Mike would be able to run his
 S/C AW11, but after reading the rules I have doughts he can run without adding a cage. Mikey listed the classes, but missed the beginner class labeled 'enthusiast" Basically a complete, stock car with few mods allowed.  I think Mike's MR2 needs to be N/A as it was not available S/C. Possibly if it was available as S/C in Japan in 1987. Need clarification on that rule. I'm going to try to at least go observe on saturday.
"I slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on wakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning."

Offline BigMike

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 04:18:39 PM »
2013 Rules here: 2013RedlineTimeAttackRulesV3D1.9.pdf (PDF file)

Rule 16-1:
Quote
16-1.1 Engine must be OEM for particular make and model. No Engine swaps. Engine replacement is allowed ONLY from OEM engine from original make and model. Japan/European engine replacement is allowed as OEM factory trim. Drive wheel configuration changes are not permitted.

...and according to Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_mr2#Changes_by_year
Quote
1987
Supercharged model introduced in Japan

So I think I'm good! :driving: Doesn't the JDM first gen GZE have a distributor? If so then for sure I'm good.

It does seem like a strange exclusion. This means that a bunch of JDM Type-R VTEC swaps are legal too which makes it pretty unfair for anyone using USDM counterparts. At least my "JDM part" is equivalent to USDM since it is USDM.
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Offline BigMike

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 04:47:05 PM »
Ahhhhh but I will violate rule 16-1.2...

Quote
16-1.2 Vehicles using factory OEM forced induction must use the following OEM stock components in unmodified form: Intake manifold, Injectors, camshaft(s), cylinder head(s), rods, crankshaft, exhaust manifold, entire turbo assembly, entire supercharger assembly.

...as I plan to not only run a smaller SC pulley but also switch to my SC14. The other mods I have planned will comply with rule 16-1.3...

Quote
16-1.3 Vehicles using factory OEM forced air induction may change or modify the following: Air filter, intake plumbing, intercooler, MAF/MAP sensors, throttle body(s), down pipes, cross pipes, exhaust system.

...as I will be using a 3S-GTE throttle body with redesigned intake plumbing.

So I could run stock boost but with the larger throttle body and improved intake plumbing, which should yield 155~160 wheel horsepower (remember I already hit 150 WHP here).

What I need to decide is...
Build my car to be on the high end of the "Enthusiasts Class" (I think very few "Enthusiasts Class" cars will beat me on paper if I am 160 WHP, 2250 lb light, great handling characteristics and a 6 speed to boot).
Build my car to be in the mid to lower end of the "Street Class" (I'd have my SC14 @ ~ 14 psi which should be another 30-40 HP & TQ) but be more challenged = more fun!

Since I mentioned my 6 speed, rule 16-1.11:

Quote
16-1.11 Transmission internal components may be replaced with OEM or aftermarket components. The gear ratios may not be changed and the type of gear and engagement must remain as OE designed.

So it seems my OEM 6-speed is allowed (as both the gears and the gear ratios are indeed made by the original equipment manufacture), but this may pose another gray area if I try to stay in the Enthusiasts Class.


Bill, what are your thoughts with the FX16? Gonna build it for Enthusiasts of Street class?
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Offline BigMike

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 04:53:10 PM »
Hmmmmm

Quote
16-4.2 All vehicles must use the OEM front and rear shock towers in the OEM locations.

16-4.3 The shock tower may be modified only to allow the installation of camber/caster plates and only such as required to obtain the necessary camber and caster.

My custom DIY camber modifications may disqualify me here. I can clean it up and fill in the elongated holes to make it appear stock but the rule says only "as required" to obtain the "necessary" camber. I didn't mod my towers out of necessity.

I do see however that rule 16-6.1 allows modifications to OEM control arms "for increased camber". So they aren't against increased camber, just may be against the unorthodoxed way I went about achieving mine.
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Offline BigMike

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2013, 05:00:26 PM »
Reading on to section 17 Street Class....

17-1.3 says transmission upgrades are allowed within the same vehicle brand. Because this rule exists, there is a good chance that my 6 speed will not pass section 16-1.11 as discussed above, so I think I am out of the Enthusiasts class already. Otherwise why would they bother listing this rule if it was already allowed in a lower class?


Whew, they allow all sorts of engine upgrades: different intake manifold, larger injectors, cams, different or upgraded head(s), rods, cranks... It also allows engine swaps from within the same model. So someone could enter a 400 HP MK1.5 (pumped up 3S-GTE 1st gen MR2). :o

Ah, I now see there is a 36mm intake restrictor requirement if one were to install some massive turbo.
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Offline BigMike

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2013, 05:10:01 PM »
Ah, I now see there is a 36mm intake restrictor requirement if one were to install some massive turbo.
Wait! What the heck does this mean?? My stock, tiny, GZE throttle body is 50mm and the 3S-GTE TB I plan to upgrade to is 55mm. This can't be right. What engine larger than 1.5-liters uses a 36mm stock throttle body?!



Edit: Ahhhhh okay, rule 17-1.15 is for Aftermarket turbo/supercharger upgrades, or non OEM turbo or supercharged systems. Regardless if I choose SC12 or SC14, this won't apply to me as both are either beforemarket and/or OEM.
But any other OEM type Turbo or SC application may install a larger compressor so long as its OEM. Okay, so the idea of a 400 HP 3S-GTE is out the window in this class thank goodness :rofl:


Edit 2: ACK! Look:
Quote
17-4.3 The shock tower may be modified only to allow the installation of camber/caster plates and only such as required to obtain the necessary camber and caster.
I violate the same rule that applies also to the Street class! :thud:


Edit 3: Why this?
Quote
17-5.5 OEM steering wheel must remain installed unless a race seat and race harness are installed meeting safety rules as listed......blah blah blah
So I can't even use my Grant steering wheel?!?!


Edit 4:
For both Enthusiast and Street classes, an interior roll cage is only "highly recommended". So we don't need one :booya: Moreover, the next class up, Modified Class, does not require one. They only specifically require a cage for the highest class, the Unlimited Class.


Edit 5: Ok I've read most of the rules now. Forced injection cars entered for the Enthusiasts class may not change their camshafts. To this day I've still yet to check what cams my engine has. I'll be sure to check this.



In closing, the proposed changes I have in mind for my engine will not be finished in time for the Feb 16/17 race. The next race that isn't a long drive away won't be until July 20/21. So I think I'll just clean things up (I need to replace my windshield which has developed a nice long crack) and enter the Enthusiast Class for Feb 16/17 (pending ruling on my camber mods and 6 speed). Then I'll upgrade to my SC14 and enter the Street class in July :thumbs:

Looks like I'll be holding off on the TRD header since that will violate rule 16-1.2.


I am going to post on their Facebook page to see about my 6 speed and camber mods. https://www.facebook.com/RedlineTimeAttack
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 05:34:44 PM by BigMike »
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Offline BigMike

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2013, 05:43:43 PM »
Here is the winner from last year's Enthusiasts Class. It is a S2000 Club Racer:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZCJZkm74hsw?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3&amp;amp;rel=0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ZCJZkm74hsw?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3&amp;amp;rel=0</a>

Thinking to myself out loud, I raced a stock AP1 S2000 on the freeway downhill from 80 to 110 MPH with my stock air filter (so limited to 142 WHP) and by 110 I had only lost half a car length. Yes they have a great top end but for corner to corner my torque band should run circles around a stock S2000. (I certainly admit I have NO track experience) Moreover, I am pretty sure I can pick up another 15-20 HP & TQ through additional class-legal intake modifications and lighten my car another 50-75 pounds come race day. :eyebrow: I'm just saying that I feel confident to be in the 90-percentile of the Enthusiasts class on paper. Driving skill on a track remains to be seen.

There could be a MR Evo entered in the Enthusiasts class, which will clean my clock pretty good in most aspects I'm sure. For that matter, a ZR1 Corvette or Nissan GTR could be entered. I did see a maximum tire width of 285mm. Not sure what the ZR1 uses. But at least it was a S2000 that one last year. Will be interesting to see what cars show up!

Edit: ZR1 runs 335mm wide rear tires, GTR runs 255mm. Stock C6 Vettes I think run 285mm.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 05:52:06 PM by BigMike »
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Offline BryanH

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2013, 05:48:05 PM »
I've wanted to do a Time Attack event for a while now.  They look interesting although I really don't know a lot of details about how they're run.  It's not racing, it's a timed competition, so I'm guessing they have open practice Saturday and then each driver goes out for a "qualifying" run to set their best time, then times are ranked.  Sound about right? 

I haven't read the rules but it sounds complicated from what you posted.

I know the faster, high profile cars (Unlimited classes?) are serious racing machines.  S2000s, EVOs, NSXs, Corvettes, all big cars with big power and big wings.  Big budget shops will come up from LA to run.

If you just want to get out on track there's always a track day where you can run anything that's safe, build the car the way you want.  It's not timed and passing is only allowed on straights initially but it's a good way to get experience on track.  With in-car video you can time your laps at home after the fact, or spend a bit more for data acquisition or a HotLap Timer (not sure if tracks still have beacons for those) to check your times at the event.

Expect your brake budget to go up. :)

Offline BryanH

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2013, 05:58:52 PM »
Ok, so that white S2000 CR ran a 2:02.7.  For reference, I ran a 2:06.0 in my 2004 S2000 (completely stock pretty much down to the tires).  The CR has factory aero and I can see that white one has suspension mods, wide light wheels and wide tires.  What kind of tires can you run in Enthusiast class? 

I'm not trying to discourage you by any means!  But I think you will find modern cars to be [TheArchitect]exceedingly efficient[/TheArchitect] at getting around a race track.  They do everything well and are easier to drive. 

Offline BigMike

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2013, 06:05:55 PM »
Hiya Bryan!!

Thanks for chiming in. Now that you mention individual timed laps, it all makes sense. The videos don't have competitors either. Hmmm

Ok, then for an open track day, looking at Buttomwillow, http://buttonwillowraceway.com/calendar-of-events/, it looks like the next open track day is March 1st (?). I'm gonna call them next week to get more info.
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Offline BigMike

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2013, 06:09:10 PM »
No discouragement taken, but I do need to be more humble, I always get carried away thinking about finally getting to a track!

The tire requirements for the Enthusiasts class is DOT, no lower than 140 tread wear and the drive tires may be no wider than 285mm (for 2WD) or 255mm wide for AWD.

Was the CR available for the AP2? If so then its likely he had more torque which would be a huge aid. Also some engine mods are allowed, mainly external, so its highly likely he is putting down more power than stock.
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Offline Sirdeuce

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2013, 08:22:33 PM »
Hey Bryan! How's thing been? Sad news for Bryan in this particular series, no pros. As for the S/C set up, I don't see anything about pulley sizes. Throttle body might sneak by if you got your buddy to hog one out, like he did for the N/A TB in my black AE82.  On the strut towers, bolt in a set of camber plates, and get a set of coil overs, at least ground control sleeves and springs. The 6-speed trans is a bit gray, but........ it has STOCK gears, it is OEM (technically, AE111) Maybe not for YOUR model year, OEM nonetheless. I think it should fly. As far as getting discouraged, gotta have fun, and learn the ins and outs before getting competeitive. I know I'd run my AE82 as it sits just to get out there!! I'd run my Tacoma if I still had it. Be nice going balls out without worrying about the popo.
"I slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on wakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning."

Offline Sirdeuce

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2013, 08:38:57 PM »
As far as my FX16 as a runner here? I have finally ordered sway bars and urethane bushings from Whiteline, Aussie company, and am looking for some struts that will cross-over to mine. The trans I want is the AE111 6-speed with LSD. My engine will have an elevated comp ratio and 264 cams TB and headers. I have an ECU that's been overclocked for an 8800 rpm limiter and the HKS cam card says the cams make power to 8300rpm. Might even go with a JDM MAP ECU, overclocked as well. I can't use a piggyback so p[robably stay with the USDM AFM ECU set-up. MIght be able to get 130 whp! Mike forget to mention thae rules on tire size for FF cars, unlimited!
"I slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on wakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning."

Offline Sirdeuce

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Re: Redline Time Attack Annual Track Events
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 09:02:44 PM »
Wonder how the Speed 3 would do. Update the suspension a bit, it's pretty good, but not really competition worthy. With the mods allowed, intake, exhaust, tuning, 300-320 whp is an easy do with this crazy car. Haven't put it on the rollers yet, but the general increase from the stock 263 hp 280 tq(flywheel) is a solid 280 hp 295 tq with just the Mazdaspeed/Injen CAI-1 intake.  Add the COBB exhaust goodies and turbo inlet pipe, download their general fuel/ign map and without even seeing a dyno 300 hp and 305 tq can be an easy reality. All that's neede in the mix is some serious track time!
"I slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on wakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning."